Mind Over Matter with Loyd Auerbach

Lorne Brown

This week on the Conscious Fertility Podcast, I have Loyd Auerbach and he is a world recognized paranormal expert and Parapsychologist. He holds a master’s degree in Parapsychology. Loyd has over 43 years of investigating the paranormal and over 40 years teaching courses On this subject, he’s the director of the Office of Paranormal Investigations, president of the Forever Family Foundation and Adjunct professor at Atlantic University. He’s also on the board of directors of the Rhine Research Center, where he teaches online parapsychology courses through their educational center. And he’s either authored or co-authored at this point in time, nine books on the paranormal for the general public, including two that I found or find the titles quite interesting, the one on Psychic Dreaming and Mind Over Matter. And he’s been on many media appearances in the thousands with numerous national TV appearances as well. And you can see him in some episodes on the unexplained or Surviving death on Netflix. And I was introduced to Loyd through this Society of Science Exploration. I met you at one of the conferences there and some of your colleagues from the Rhine Institute and who I’ve had on the podcast said we should chat. And so Loyd, I’ll start off with what is parapsychology because it shows up a lot in your biography, so maybe we can start with that and then how are we going to tie this into health and reproduction and manifestation?

Loyd Auerbach

Sure. Well, parapsychology is the study, the scientific study of psychic phenomena, psychic experiences, and that includes extrasensory perception and its all its variations. It includes mind over matter or psychokinesis as we like to call it. Pk, which runs the gamut from healing to moving objects, to bending metal to affecting computers, just runs a wide range. And also the third area is survival of bodily death. The idea that consciousness can survive outside the body and actually live on after we’ve died. And that would include things like apparitions and your death experiences and of course reincarnation, things like that.

Lorne Brown 

Alright, so we can go real out there on this topic and so

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, it’s out there for you, not out there for me.

Lorne Brown 

So for me it’s a little out of my comfort zone as in really. But is there data? Do you have evidence on this because the mind of a matter part to me is quite fascinating and I’d love to dive into that mind over matters. So how can I influence matter? And I’m thinking about my physical body, my reality out there. So can you talk a little bit about that? You wrote a book on this right? Mind over matter,

Loyd Auerbach

Right? The book is currently out of print, although there’s still copies floating around. I think you even on Amazon and it’ll be back in print. I’m going to bring it back in, print myself in a few months. First of all, I think everyone is doing mind over matter. I mean you may not be aware of that. And we think of this from the pop culture form of levitating an object, things flying around or those awful horrendous poltergeist demonstrations you see in the media, which are not like what they really are in real life, but in reality we’re doing mind over matter. I mean the whole idea of mind body connection, our body is matter, our mind is not. So the simplest example of this would be talking, we certainly know from studying neuroscience and biology in general physiology, we know that the neurons fire and cause certain muscles to move and all you can even trace the pathways when things are happening and what activity there is in the brain.

But the one thing that we don’t know is how the thought conscious or unconscious triggers the right neurons to cause these things to happen. That’s consciousness. And included in all this, of course, is a very simple and well accepted what we consider a mind over matter or psychokinesis effect called the placebo effect, where this is like a benchmark in pharmaceutical research that people are not given medication. They’re either told that something they’re given is medication that’s going to help them or they’re convinced that through the way it’s presented to them, this thing which is representative of some medicine is also going to work and it works for the placebo effect works for a lot of people in fact. So that’s all mind over matter.

Lorne Brown 

It reminds me Loyd, of a study. Now I haven’t reviewed the study in years, so I’m going to do my best to say it correctly, but it was done here in Vancouver, I believe at University of British Columbia where they were giving Parkinson’s patients an injection that would do something with dopamine. I don’t know if they were giving them dopamine or it caused a more uptake in dopamine, which was important and not surprising. They give ’em the injection and they can measure later an increase in dopamine, their tremors would get it better as well. Then they started giving them a placebo. So it was saline, it was no longer the drug and the patient’s tremor got better, but also the body thought it was getting the medicine and it started to do the same thing as it did on the drug and increase dopamine. If that’s how the study went. I’m trying to paraphrase it, but basically giving something that was considered inert saline, the body had learned behaviorally to release other hormones in the body as if it was getting the drug. That’s that mind over matter idea.

Loyd Auerbach 

And there was actually a study a couple of years ago where they looked at the placebo effect. There’s not a lot of research just on the placebo effect, but what they did was they checked an oral placebo versus an injectable saline solution, placebo, and people did better with the injection even when they were told it was just saline, that it was that kind of placebo indicating that the psychological, our mindset is more oriented towards an injection being more powerful or potent than a pill. But either way, there was a positive effect on a lot of the folks health-wise. So our minds can affect our health in dramatic ways, and certainly doctors know this. If a patient doesn’t have a positive outlook, then what’s going to happen is that person may not get healed or may not heal themselves or even react positively to any sort of treatment.

Lorne Brown

And the placebo effect often gets dismissed and disregarded. But here we’re talking about, hey, if our body’s going to respond to our mindset, then rather than ignore it, why not see if we can engage it, capitalize on it to help it impact our wellbeing?

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah, that makes really good sense. There’s a lot of controversy in medicine over placebos and over all sorts of other types of baking medicines as they call them and alternative medicines. But the reality is, first of all, a lot of pharmaceuticals are based on herbs and other things that are in nature. In fact, I’m a big chocolate guy and I actually do guided chocolate tastings and even make chocolate. I got a certificate as a professional c chocolatier and a few years ago there was a big discussion, well, not big, there was a discussion online with some C chocolatier and I talked to a couple here in the Bay area about this, that some pharmaceutical company was going to try to extract the bromine from cacao, from chocolate. That’s another form of stimulant. It can help with migraines. They were going to create a drug from chocolate when in fact all one needed to do was eat some chocolate,

Lorne Brown 

Right? But it’s hard to patent chocolate.

Loyd Auerbach 

It’s hard to get, it’s already approved by the F fda. So

Lorne Brown 

Yeah, I think for our listeners then, since we’re on the topic of chocolate, is it a dark chocolate and milk chocolate? So what would you suggest?

Loyd Auerbach

Okay, well, and by the way, there has been research on using chocolate, putting intention, kind of a PK effect. Dean Radden did some research on that a few years ago, but it’s dark chocolate. You really get the full impact of chocolate, the Morey cow is in there. The higher the percentage of the actual plant, which chocolate comes from means less sugar and hopefully not too many other ingredients in it that gives you more of the stimulants. There’s a tiny bit of caffeine. Caffeine’s actually not the main stimulant in chocolate. It’s actually theobromine, which is what dogs are allergic to by the way. So it’s why you can’t get chocolate for dogs. It doesn’t work the same way as caffeine. It doesn’t give you the jitters the way that caffeine does. But there’s also something else. There are many things in chocolate. Chocolate is one of the most complex, if not the most complex food stuff on the planet with well over a thousand molecular structures in dark chocolate, which is amazing. And it includes phenyl, ethyl amine, PEA, which is the substance the brain makes when we’re in a really good mood and when we’re in love, which is where the association with chocolate comes from. So if you eat good dark chocolate, you’re going to have a mood enhancement.

Lorne Brown 

I didn’t know we were going to go into the chocolate talk, but I didn’t know so much about your background in chocolate. So

I think our listeners, I think that’s of interest to all of us like chocolate and now we know dark chocolate. I want to read a description from your book Mind Over Matter, and then I’m going to ask you to kind of tie this in a little bit for our audience. So it says that our mind is a powerful tool and when properly focused, I think the keyword here is focus can do amazing things for both your body and the world around you. And then in your book, Mind Over Matter, you present a variety of topics including telekinesis, faith, healing, spirit communication, stigmata, shamanism, fire walking, psychic attacks, levitation and more. I’m interested for our listeners to learn about how or what tools you offer to ease your body’s ailments through mental health and things that you would encourage people to use for mind over matter if they’re looking to prove their life on a physical level.

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, there’s now quite a bit of literature about how visualization can help with this is something that Carl Simonton first posited back I think back in the seventies at Stanford working with cancer patients and visualizing the death of cancer shells, or imagining that your white blood cells were white knights attacking the cancer cells and people have had. This doesn’t work with everybody and we think we know partly why this does have a positive effect for a lot of folks. It’s an extension of the placebo effect effectively and really for health, part of it is keeping a positive attitude. It’s really hard to do that. I know for people who are in pain, for example, you have chronic pain, it’s hard to have a positive attitude if that pain is happening all the time. But people have used even something like hypnosis to get beyond feeling the pain or noticing the pain.

So our minds allow us to put aside the physical things that we’re picking up consciously as well as the actual effect on your body, let me flip it for a minute. We know of this thing called a psychosomatic illness, which is not hypochondria. A psychosomatic illness is caused typically by stress or worry or other things that can cause ulcers and other things in your body. That’s called the nocebo effect. It’s the flip side of the placebo effect, and it absolutely causes physical ailment as well. So if you think about that, if our worries, if our bad intentions for ourselves, if our kind of belittling ourselves, if the stress will get to us, then what we need to do is flip that so that we are looking at a more positive outlook. Meditation’s a very positive thing to use here, visualization to move away your illness in some respects. And it doesn’t work on everybody because the problem is that not everybody accepts that this is going to work. You may think it does, you may say it does, but do you really believe this? I’ve seen this when I’ve taught people to do pk, kind of more telekinesis type things.

Lorne Brown 

So you have to kind of believe to have value for you for it to work,

Loyd Auerbach 

Right, right. Belief is really, I mean that’s the key factor. We know in any sort of psychic experience that believers tend to have more psychic effect, more psychic abilities demonstrated even in the laboratory than disbelievers. And disbelievers actually often have a negative effect when we’re testing for ESP and pk. Kind of the reverse that you’re going for.

Lorne Brown

So you said in the laboratory, so I’m curious, can you share with us some of the laboratory experiments research that you have to show that this PK stands for

Loyd Auerbach 

Psychokinesis, which is action by the mind.

Lorne Brown 

Okay, so we’re using mind over matter again here, action by the mind. So can you share a bit of what you’ve seen in the lab? And again, thinking about our listeners here, looking to create a reality, looking to manifest or grow their family. I’m just curious what you’ve seen and what you witnessed in the lab that some of us may not be aware of, that research has been done.

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, I’ve focused on one particular area in the lab, but let me just kind of cover before I get to that because it wasn’t necessarily healing related, but let me talk a little bit about the research that’s been done. Overall, just some key elements that are here. We talk about healers of all sorts. Reiki is a form of psychokinesis, also of mind over matter, energy healing, any of those things. Therapeutic touch is a form of this, although all of those may have an effect because of the placebo effect, because people are accepting the treatment, which is a major part of it, like with any medicine or any medical treatment at all. So in the laboratory, there have been extensive studies over the years looking at, now we don’t do this anymore, but there are researchers such as Bernard grad up at Renton University, not Lauren and McGill University in Canada in the seventies and eighties, who worked with mice and other animals and then also work with a psychic healer to work on with people.

But with the mice, they actually caused minor wounds in the mice and they would treat them, the psychic healer would come in and treat them, and the mice healed much, much faster that were treated by the healer than the ones that were not, which the ones that were not were still handled. So that there was at least a human interaction, but they were treated by the healer. And that worked much faster and better with people. The healers that he had actually worked with individuals, and I worked with Alex Tanis at the American Society for Cyclical Research who did healing for people and worked with people at Bellevue Hospital, including some of the early AIDS patients. He wasn’t even called AIDS at that point and he had remissions, but he always told me that he wasn’t a hundred percent sure, even though he felt he was doing the healing, he wasn’t sure that he was actually doing the healing rather than being a really good placebo, convincing them to heal themselves or triggering their own healing abilities, which we think may be going on

Lorne Brown

Can I just ask a question around that? Because around the placebo side, again, it gets a bad rap and

Loyd Auerbach 

Oh yeah.

Lorne Brown 

You said something right there that I wanted to check in on. He wasn’t sure if he was doing the healing or if he was, I can’t remember the word, but triggering their wrong,

Loyd Auerbach 

Triggering their responses. Yeah.

Lorne Brown 

Yeah. So is that not healing though, if somebody’s, oh, because our bodies are constantly healing, our bodies are constantly getting rid of cancer cells and fighting viruses, bacteria, healing wounds, right? Yeah,

Loyd Auerbach 

That’s still absolutely a positive effect. He wondered about this because he thought maybe he could train a couple of actors to pretend to be Alex Tanis and see if they never did that, because apparently the doctors didn’t want ’em to do that. But that might’ve been interesting.

Lorne Brown 

I lean to the idea that much of this energy healing or this PK type healing is a way you’re a vessel and somehow you’re helping the person receiving the healing is the one really doing the healing and somehow you’re helping engage it, trigger it, activate it. And I don’t know because I’m not doing the research. I’m just wondering if that’s how I’ve always thought about it or if I’m starting to think about it. That’s probably more I think of the Bankston research where in his research we have him, in one of our episodes we have Dean Radden, by the way you mentioned as well talks about some of his research. But I think in, at least in my conversations with Dr. Bill Bengston, he had shared that it was the person or rat in need that determined the healing. And it wasn’t so much the person doing the healing. He could see when he did the brains link up something, they could measure something, they could see something changing. So it wasn’t just nothing’s happening. They could measure changes. They don’t know there’s other changes happening in the body, but what they measured, they did see something sync up. So I interrupted you when you were talking

Loyd Auerbach

About this. No, that’s okay. I was actually going to go on the flip side of this, which is that there was research done. Dolores Krieger herself who started the therapeutic touch program with nurses around the United States, did research with a woman named Olga Waral was a healer, and some of the research included her being asked to increase blood hemoglobin levels in a flask of human blood, so it wasn’t in a human being. And then also to speed up an enzyme reaction, which was mimicking similar to what enzymes we have in our bodies. Again, not in human being. So in a flask. And in both instances, she had an incredible effect on the blood and the enzymes, which would indicate that it’s not just triggering something in us, although that may be for some, but there’s some sort of energy exchange. More recently, there’s been research at the Rhine Research Center.

John Kruth has been doing work in a bioenergy lab that we have at the center bringing in healers into a perfectly dark room and using a photomultiplier tube to detect the photons that the brain gives off because our brains give off photons at such a lower, and we’re talking about particles of light, we’re talking about you need a lot to see anything in the dark. And yet the average of one to five photons per second has been increased with a couple of the healers and with a couple of martial artists at over 500,000 photons per second. One of them reached a million photons per second, still not visible, but detectable by these devices. This indicates that there’s some energetic effect coming off the healers and apparently off martial artists at two who can play with cheap.

Lorne Brown 

And so when you say photons, these are packages of energy, packages of light, that’s

Loyd Auerbach 

Articles of light, which are energy basically.

Lorne Brown 

And so why would this be significant if we’re seeing more of this coming off of people?

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, what they suggest, first of all, the research, the idea of the research came from a lot of art. If you look at medieval art, renaissance art of saints, of healers, of sacred people around the planet for that matter, they’re often glowing with that halo effect. So it was thought, let’s see if the healers who claim to do energy healing are giving off some form of energy when they’re healing, and in fact they are. This is the only detectable energy we know it looks for at this point, but there is a huge increase, a spike in the energetic effect that they’re giving off that may not be what is causing the healing or triggering the healing in other people. But there is absolutely an increase in energy coming from the healers.

Lorne Brown 

It’s interesting because in our fertility practice that I have in Vancouver, we use low level laser therapy, which emits photons into, we put it into certain areas of the body where there’s high blood volume around the ovaries and low level laser therapy is putting energy into the body, and it’s been shown to have regulated inflammation, increased blood flow, and improved mitochondrial function. So I just share this because we’re talking about conscious fertility and you mentioned photons, and we’re using it at a certain wavelength, red and infrared, to support the body’s ability to heal and regulate. So in your research, you’re seeing things and it’s not just like nothing’s happening. You are able to measure photons changes in the brain. You’re seeing things happen as people experience healing.

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah, John Kruth is doing that and is showing that kind of effect. They’ve got a lot more research to do, but the bio photon idea, the idea that we give up bio photons, we don’t know why there are people in many fields of science who are studying this effect. It’s not just parapsychology that’s looking at this. They’re not looking at healers specifically, but they’re looking at why the brain is giving off these photons and why they can increase, for example,

Lorne Brown 

And John Kruth, who you work with, we have an episode with him on the podcast and he talks about the biophoton so it is worthwhile to listen to.

Loyd Auerbach

I was going to mention also what my research has been, my controlled research on PK has mainly been with one particular subject in the nineties, and also kind of going forward, not in a laboratory, but with this, it was Jen I worked with by the name of Martin Caden. He was a science and science fiction writer. He wrote the book Cyborg, which became the $6 million Man TV series,

And also wrote the book Marooned, which became an academy award-winning movie in the late sixties as well. And Marty was capable of pk, of moving objects of what we would call telekinesis under extremely controlled conditions. And so I worked with him for several years. We did a few workshops together, and then I kind of carried on after he passed away, kind of a method of teaching people to move objects, which is very, very simple because trying to get people to move a big object is beyond our boggled threshold. We have this belief threshold that we could get to up to a certain point. And there’s a particular psychology behind psychokinesis. It’s really human performance issues where ESP is still odd for mainstream science not accepted, but it’s not that odd for most people. Most human beings can’t accept that there’s some form of ESP when we talk about moving an object that freaks people out, and it’s hard to accept. So people even seeing it happening, they’re going to go to, I didn’t really see that, or it’s a fake or something like that. That’s what our culture has taught us to believe. So we have to do something, get people past that. And what I’ve learned is teaching people works much better in a group, even though not everybody can do it. And I kind of extended that and doing some of the spoon bending parties that people have heard about.

Lorne Brown 

Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Tell us more. Spoon bending parties. Go ahead. I’m listening. All yours.

Loyd Auerbach 

So back in the seventies after Uri Geller, the Israeli psychic caused a stir in the world because he could bend spoons and forks and other things and would do these TV appearances and tell people at home that they could do it too. And all of a sudden the TV stations or networks were flooded with calls and letters. This is pre-email people claiming that stuff did bend in their hands while watching Geller on tv. So an aerospace engineer named Jack Houck came up in studying psychokinesis. He was interested in this, looking at the psychology of this whole performance issue that was put down in our literature by a man named Ken Batchelor in the uk, human beings have a problem of witnessing. They are inhibited from witnessing and acknowledging PK happening in most instances, and they have even more of a problem owning up to it.

But Geller was able to get people past it because he really, his superpower really, because he also does magic, but his superpower was motivating people to do psychic things. I’ve met Aria a bunch of times and talked to him about this. So Halk actually came up with this idea of taking the spoon bending stuff, let’s do a group and get people absolutely out of their heads, silly, which these are very silly and let’s see what happens. And it turned out that people were able to bend spoons, psychically and otherwise without even realizing what they were doing. I’ve kind of done this over the last 15 years now actually more than that myself. But Houck was doing it in the late seventies through the eighties and into the nineties. And it’s a really interesting thing because it’s not just that people are physically bending things and not realizing it in a slightly altered state, but you see things happening that just don’t happen under normal circumstances with this stuff in that circumstance, people really get into it. In the other circumstance, trying to move an object, what I found very clearly was an illustration of the problem, and that is that even in a group where everybody’s basically, these are paper pyramids that are balanced on a spindle or pin, whether they’re under glass or not, and I see people causing them to move and then doing this. I mean, that motion, I’ve seen many people do that. I can’t believe I did that. It didn’t really happen, and then they can’t do it again because they can’t accept that that was a real thing.

Lorne Brown

And this goes back to that having to believe. So there is this idea of, I don’t know, cognitive bias I think is the word. It’s hard to change somebody’s belief, right? And that’s why we have flat earth earthers, right? No matter what, they’re not going to believe. Or you have in your country political parties, and no matter how much you give them evidence of something’s not right or corrupt, they can’t change that party line.

Loyd Auerbach 

I was listening, just listening. I’m a fan of all time radio. I was just listening to an episode of The Adventures of Superman from the 1940s, and it’s a series about hatem mongers and so grand going after them. And at one point somebody says, if you tell people to lie enough times, they’ll believe it. That’s definitely what’s been going on here.

Lorne Brown 

So people, you can’t give them the evidence. There’s not enough evidence to make them see it differently. Is that what you think is happening with the pk? Because in this materialistic world paradigm that we live in, this can happen. Even when they see it, they can even, it doesn’t go in.

Loyd Auerbach

It doesn’t go in, or if it goes in, they’re afraid of it. Because in popular culture, what we see typically is PK running wild in a bad way. You take the movie Carrie, for example, both versions of that from Stephen King’s book where Sissy Spacey in the first version is they prank her with pig’s blood at the prom after grounding her prom queen, and she just explodes psychotically things, burn cars, flip, all that stuff. We see a lot of negative imagery around people doing PK and very little positive imagery, but that’s a case with most psychic phenomena, I think in pop culture anyway, so people tend to be afraid. Plus you couple that with the religious fear of anything out of the ordinary and then the peer pressure that happens to kids because that’s weird. It just sets us up for failure in this area.

Lorne Brown 

If we can use our mind to bend spoons, for example, then I’m curious what else we can do with that kind of

Loyd Auerbach 

Focus. Well, that’s the whole idea because when people do the spoon bending and recognize that they really did do that without, some people are a little, they’re still a little skeptical, so they think they actually use strength to do that. But when you see some of these metal objects, there’s just no way they could have bent them that quickly or they’re made out of, I often buy really cheap spoons that if you try to bend them, they snap, and yet people can bend them into spirals, which is pretty amazing. I even had somebody then take a spiral and unbend it, which is if you try to do that, you can bend it by strength slowly, but if you unbend it fast, it’s absolutely going to break or snap. Even a heavy spoon will do that.

Lorne Brown 

The spoon bending, it’s not an illusion, it’s not a magician’s trick. They’re bending spoons,

Loyd Auerbach 

They’re bending spoons,

Lorne Brown 

Okay?

Loyd Auerbach 

There has been analysis of many of the spoons by Jack Ho. He had a metallurgist kind of cut ’em up, just cut slices and compare it against spoons that were bent with physical force and different structure of the metal and metal crystals inside from the ones that are bent psychotically. And we teach this as an example of how our minds can actually influence things directly. And that bringing that back to health, to one’s health, the idea that we can influence our own body to a point, I mean, there may be a point where we can’t, unless you push the belief system quite a bit more just globally, but we can make changes. My friend Martin Caden died of misdiagnosed thyroid cancer, and it’s one of the most curable cancers. Had it been diagnosed properly, he would’ve been cured. But when he went to the Mayo Clinic and they told him It’s too late, it’s throughout your body, they told him, you have eight weeks to live.

That’s what they told him, his response, because he called me from the Mayo Clinic to tell me how he cursed out the doctors and how he told them he was going to be calling them every week past that eight weeks until he actually died. And he lasted over a year and a half longer because he really was mad that they gave him an expiration date because most people will use that expiration date and they will die. And that’s the no SIBO effect. Again, that giving up because you’ve been told you have an expiration, we will cause ourselves to die.

Lorne Brown 

And then some people like your friend, use it to live longer just to prove somebody wrong. So it’s not as simple or as easy as, okay, I want to be fertile, I want to have healing. There must be a skill, a practice, a mastery focus. Can you tell us a bit about this process of using your mind if I, I’ve never been to a spoon, so if I’m going to talk about the health, but I want to go back to the spoon bending. If you put me in a group of, I don’t know how many you need, do you have a little practice, like a little lesson in what I need to do or do I just have to be in the room and the spoon is going to bend because somebody else knows how to do

Loyd Auerbach

It? Go through a visualization process that Jack Howk actually came up with. And part of the thing that I do, I like to have everybody have a pendulum, not just basically something either a nut on a string or a ring on a string to show an unconscious effect. We have called the Idio Motor effect. I mean, if you take a ring and put it on a string or just even hold a pendant out and you hold it between your thumb and forefinger and just hold it till it’s still and then let it go. And then think about it moving in a circle for the vast majority of people, it will start moving in a circle, and then you can change your mind and say, okay, now go back and forth and it will do that. And you are positive consciously you are not moving your hand or making any muscle movements, but there are minor muscle movements or impulses that are coming from the unconscious.

And so that shows you that your mind can kind of cause things to happen even if you’re not consciously trying. And from there, we move to the spoon bending. And the idea is to think about how, first of all, how we’re connected to everything around us. I mean, for the spoon bending, I kind of use Star Wars often because I’m a Star Wars fan, to channel the force, bring a light down, bring the energy down through your body and back up and then into the spoons themselves. But for something like healing or even for moving those little targets, paper targets based on that balanced on the spindles, it’s about you can do the same kind of exercise and channel it through your hands. And we see Luke Skywalker in the movies pointing his hand at something that’s actually not necessary, but it’s a good guide. And what happens there is you visualize the ending.

So what’s going to happen? That thing’s spinning in my mind, the target is already moving. That’s what you’re doing now, unlike the pop culture version where you see people concentrating so hard, they get that throbbing vein in their head and their face turns red. If you were to watch people when they’re doing any sort of pk, even healing the spoon, bending any of that, their faces go blank. It’s almost like you’re getting, it’s totally that you’re getting out of your own way. You’re letting your psychic muscles move or affect things with a goal in mind rather than concentrating. You’re focusing on the visual. Carl Simonton had people visualizing the cancer cells being destroyed, and people who really got into that have had success for that. There are a number of other people who have had other forms of visualization, and there are many different rituals around the world in different cultures that do the same kind of thing.

Lorne Brown 

Do you think, Loyd, that it’s the subconscious then that part of us that’s doing this, and going back to the pendulum spinning, so consciously, you don’t think you’re moving it, you got your finger still, but on a subconscious level, there’s these minor subtle movements that you can’t perceive consciously that’s happening. So you’re getting into, because I always call the subconscious, I refer to the subconscious as the supercomputer, super powerful part of ourselves, and then the conscious part is not very powerful, but we can use it to send intention or direction to the subconscious and print on it. And so in the spoon bending and the healing, you’re saying get out of your way, is that kind of consciously this little computer, step aside, set your attention, use your, and then this super conscious or the subconscious will do its thing, which sounds like, and I’m going to ask you what your thoughts are.

If it’s bending the spoon and you become one with the spoon, what do you think is happening? Because we have this materialistic view, this Newtonian world where we’re separate, and it sounds like from what I’ve heard from other guests, that there’s a more quantum understanding of this world where we are connected beyond space and time. So can you tell us what you, because nobody really knows that, a lot of people have ideas of possibly what’s happening. So what do you think is happening or what’s your view of the world as of what you’ve learned thus

Loyd Auerbach

Far? Well, first I have to say that when we’ve tried to detect, for example, the force or energy that is causing objects to move, to bend spoons, all of these things, we find that even within our field that psychokinesis minor over matter is a trickster phenomenon. That there was a researcher named Rex Stanford who came up with a model for all this in which if you’re being psychic, especially psycho kinetic, if there’s five possible ways to move that object or to affect the cells in the body or to bend a spoon to get an end result, your mind, your unconscious is going to find the easiest way in that moment. And if you try to detect it, it’ll shift to another way. 

Lorne Brown 

It’s kind of like that observer and Dean radians he talked about as soon as you start to observe it, it behaves differently. I think it was waves and particles he was doing in a split experiment he talked about, so there’s a trickster. So is this part of us the trickster or is there something

Loyd Auerbach 

Else? Part of us? It’s totally part of us, and it’s probably because we have either evolutionarily or cross-culturally, there is this idea that we can only do so much psychically without totally freaking out. A really interesting example we’ve all heard the story of the mother who was thrown from a car and the car flipped over and the kid’s stuck in the car and the mother rips the door off and pulls the kid out. It’s hard.

Lorne Brown 

The super strength that she has in that moment lift the car up to save the child,

Loyd Auerbach 

Which I heard as a kid when I heard about this, they always said, it’s adrenaline. Well, here’s a problem. Adrenaline cannot make the human body stronger. It just speeds up our reflexes. It may allow us to use the maximum, but I actually got to meet, I lucked out and met a couple of doctors, an ER doctor and orthopedic surgeon from Marin County General Hospital. This is actually before I was writing Mind Over Matter. So the universe was kind to me, and I was talking to ’em about the book and talking to them about this, and I said, out of curiosity, have you guys ever seen in a medical newsletter or medical journal, anybody who’s actually examined somebody like this? And they looked at each other and they turned back to me and said, we had somebody like that about a month ago in the hospital.

And they talked about this woman who had gone off the road, her kid was trapped. There were many witnesses who saw this happen. She pushed up the car. It was actually, I believe a pickup truck opened the door, ripped off the seatbelt and pulled her kid out. She was under 120 pounds. She was about five foot two. And so I said, well, did you examine her? And the ER doctor said, yeah, she just had some bruises and scratches on her, and we sent her up to orthopedics. And the other guy, the surgeon, had looked at her x-rays. I said, so what should have happened to her given the circumstances? And they looked at each other again, and the orthopedic surgeon said, well, she should have had at least a couple of broken bones, if not torn ligaments and muscle issues and all that, and none of that had happened. So I said, well, what explains that? And they couldn’t explain any of that. So Martin, Caden, his explanation would’ve been that either our subconscious psychic power, our psychokinesis either shored up her body, in other words, made her body almost like give it like an exoskeleton, or perhaps her mind lifted the car actually levitated it, but because we’re human beings and freaked out by that sort of thing, she had her hand on the car to make herself feel better without realizing it.

Lorne Brown 

Okay, so again, we’re going back to this whole idea of belief. How do we then, I’m somebody that wants to have better health, I want to use my mind over matter. What is the kind of training or is there a skill to this? Can anybody potentially learn how to do this, bend spoons and do these things? Is there a way that you think that we can get better at doing this? So it is just part of life that I can bend a spoon or move an object with my mind or heal something in my body.

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, to a point, the answer is to a point. And it might become in waves in the sense that the idea of bending a spoon is not practical in the long run. It’s not socially acceptable. One of the mediums I work with, a Forever Family Foundation, found that she could do this after we did a little spoon bending session with a group of them at the Rhine Center years ago. And for the entire weekend, she was bending stuff at the hotel and bending stuff at the restaurant. And she called me later that week after everybody left to say her husband was getting mad at her. She was bending stuff at home. So I think there’s a limit to how practical some of those things might be. But when it comes down to it, this is a belief issue. We’re talking about health, I would not rely solely on this at all, but I would absolutely focus on this and that is to perhaps try, there’s ways you can try the spoon bending, although really it works better with groups than it does to try to do it yourself until you’ve actually done it.

Lorne Brown 

Do you have a theory why it’s better in groups versus

Loyd Auerbach 

Individuals? It helps with a group, especially when you have a group of people who are yelling at their spoons to bend, which is part of the silliness of it. It gets you past that witness inhibition. It gets you past that ownership resistance. Doing it in a group. You have the pure effect that if five or six people in a group are doing it, even if it’s a hundred people, it’s okay to do. If only one person’s doing it, it may not be okay to do. That person may just be weird.

Lorne Brown 

It made me think of Lynn McTaggart’s book, the Power of Eight, where she gets groups of eight to do healing. And then I was just thinking like, batteries put more together, you get better results maybe. So I was just thinking

Loyd Auerbach 

Healing circles do work better for people because you’re being supportive of each other actually getting healed and having the mindset

Lorne Brown 

To do that.

Loyd Auerbach 

There is that group effect, but that’s more of a psychological effect than actually a psychic effect.

Lorne Brown

Can you even separate those?

Loyd Auerbach 

I think it’s tough to do that. It’s tough. Separate those, I mean, psychic is influenced by the psychological, no

Lorne Brown 

Question. Yeah. So going back to people wanting to learn this, is there a place that they can learn to develop their PK and influence? I know I’ve done this on myself, and I believe there’s been experiments where I can bring awareness to my fingertips. If I just focus on my fingertips, I can bring awareness and start to sense them. And if they’re a little chilly like they are, I can sense ’em getting warmer, right? And I believe they’ve done measurements where there’s more blood flow temperature. So in Chinese medicine, we have this idea where the mind goes, the Q follows, what you focus on becomes your reality, and that’s how we move energy. Move qi. Just bring your awareness to it. So that’s a subtle idea.

Loyd Auerbach 

You remember biofeedback?

Lorne Brown 

I’m aware of biofeedback, yeah.

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah. I mean, biofeedback was an attempt was using sensor technology to tell you that you were actually influencing or affecting your body, whether it was blood pressure, galvanic, skin response, heartbeat, any of those things we can do that we can affect our bodies in many ways, some more subtle than others, but we absolutely can do that. And the whole idea of biofeedback was to teach people how to do that by giving them feedback that they were being successful or in the right direction. So part of the issue here for healing yourself or keeping yourself healthy is how you feel in your subject and the fertility issue, it’s really going to be, is there a success rate here down the road? But part of it is, am I believing? Am I accepting that this can really happen? And that can be the tough part to get past.

Lorne Brown

And when we’ve done some group work and with my patients, we talk about baby manifestation and in a light way that just using manifestation techniques because nobody studied this. So give it a go. See what happens. Another thing to add to your supplements, your acupuncture, your herbs, your IVF, be proactive. Bring your mind into it. And the way I’ve studied others that are doing manifestation has come up with my approach is first quiet body of mind. So get yourself into a state of calmness and there’s tools to elicit relaxation. Then I call it setting your GPS. So get clear on what you want as if you already have it, like you said, right? What’s the end result? And then bring in the emotion. That’s the charge behind the intention. It’s the power. It’s like if you’re sending a message out into the ether, the more emotion, the louder the beacon and then get to a state of practicing it.

Can you deny your current reality? Close your eyes. Go inside and imagine as if it’s already happened. You’re holding your baby, for example, and can you get to that place where you believe it so you’re not wanting it, but not having it? So you’re feeling I don’t have it. You’re feeling stressed about it. No, you really believe in it for a moment. So when you actually open your eyes, there’s a little bit of disappointment because you’re in the reality again where you don’t have it. But for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, two minutes, you’re there and you’re just excited and you believe you’re having it. That’s part of the manifestation process I like to play with,

Loyd Auerbach 

And I think that’s a really good way. I’d also actually stepped back from the final result of a baby and think about what’s going on inside oneself at that point. Well, I think that visualizing the process, the conception process, the growth of the fetus, all of that stuff, just the whole process, just so that with a positive outcome of a baby might be kind of the extra oath that might help here.

Lorne Brown

Yeah, good. There’s some of the guided imagery that we share as resources. One of them takes ’em through that process of experiencing the whole pregnancy. And I usually invite the women I see to some of them are pushing a stroller and the kids too. Some are holding the baby at the birth, some are seeing themselves pregnant. To me, going to whatever image is going to elicit that feeling of being a mother and why you want this baby, it’s going to help elicit the feeling. So I’m focused on the end result and let them find their image. And I like your idea, and that’s the playful part. Find other parts that you want to incorporate.

Loyd Auerbach 

And I’ll mention, by the way, Jack Houck actually has a website still, which gives you the details of a running, spoon bending party if you want to try one yourself.

Lorne Brown 

Yeah,

Loyd Auerbach 

It’s J-A-C-K-H-O-U-C-k.com.

Lorne Brown 

I’m very intrigued. So yes. And then I want to come downstairs with my wife and children and see if I’d be happy to be yelled at for a little bit for bending spoons in that house. I think it’d be quite fun. But as you said, there’s data, there are studies where they’re using the mind that you’re focused to do healing to help encourage the body to do its healing. And I want to emphasize that the body has this innate ability to heal. That’s why we’re alive, otherwise we wouldn’t be alive. It’s constantly doing repair, and all we’re doing is consciously setting the intention to engage that healing capacity.

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah, that is correct. We are triggering some process in our own bodies. I mean, clearly the placebo effect, which is not always making you feel better but actually makes you better actually having the full effect, it’s very clear that this is a real effect and it is a mental effect.

Lorne Brown 

Do you think getting good at focusing is important? I find that intention’s not enough. There is a skill to this. There is a practice to this.

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah, there’s a couple forms of meditation. One is just opening up meditation. The other is focusing on something and you can focus on a real object and focus on, for example, I mean it could be a candle flame, but maybe you focus on, even though it may not ever happen on the candle flame being snuffed out or the candle flame flaring up, but taking one single thing and focusing on that and then seeing if you can actually picture that in your mind. Not everybody can actually visualize, but to have even a word that you’re thinking of and just kind of zero in on that. And again, this is not about trying so hard. This is about actually seeing the end result or thinking of the end result and getting out of the way of second guessing yourself.

Lorne Brown 

This reminds me, you talked about the focus and snuffing the candle out. Is this kind of looking at a cloud and see if you can make it

Loyd Auerbach 

Disappear?

Lorne Brown 

Yeah.

Loyd Auerbach 

Cloud busting.

Lorne Brown 

That was called, okay, I remember.

Loyd Auerbach 

That’s called cloud busting.

Lorne Brown

Is that such a thing? Have you guys studied that?

Loyd Auerbach 

Apparently some people claim to be able to do it. I know that there was a gentleman by the name of Ted Owens who was studied by Jeffrey Michel quite, in fact, Jeff wrote a book about him called the PK Man who was able to do cloud busting and other similar things. And there are a lot of stories around the world, of course, of people who have been able to affect the weather.

Lorne Brown 

They would be good for people that have weddings planned or outdoor events.

Loyd Auerbach 

My dad was a sports producer and he told me a story about NBC covering a major golf tournament in South Africa, and there was a big storm coming, and they hired a witch doctor to come and do a ritual, and the storm bypassed the golf course, but hit everywhere else.

Lorne Brown 

Very interesting. Anecdotally, interesting. We’ve got to see if we can reproduce that, but I like that. I do like this idea that we don’t dismiss everything. I often find in our society, we like to dismiss the outlier, and I’m looking at the woman that’s told she can’t get pregnant, her hormone levels, her age, her history says impossible. And when she does, I want to study with her. I want to find out can we replicate this more

Loyd Auerbach 

Often? Well, here’s the basic problem. It goes back to the eight weeks that Martin Caden was given to live. We are told what limits we have. The four minute mile was not physiologically possible for a human being to do it until Roger Banister ran that in 1954. And then lots of people did it.

Lorne Brown 

That’s right. It took three weeks after he broke it for the next person to break it.

Loyd Auerbach 

That’s right. So every time we’re told that there’s a limit on either mental capacity or physical capacity, especially if we take it to heart and we don’t fight back at it and flip it around, we are putting up a wall that is going to be hard for us to get past.

Lorne Brown

We have these ceilings. It reminds me the author is Gay Hendrix, the book might’ve been called the Big Leap, but he talks about how we have the ceiling and to get to another place or leveling your life, it’s about breaking through that ceiling, that limiting belief. You have to take it and then you can experience more.

Loyd Auerbach 

And a lot of times all it takes is one person to do it, who is a good example, and we can say, well, if this guy can do it, I can do it too. That’s the attitude that has to shift. If that person can cause themselves to get pregnant when they are told they can’t, or if that person can have remission from cancer, why can’t I do that?

Lorne Brown 

Yeah, an interesting client that I worked with who was told it’s impossible and premature ovarian failure was her diagnosis, and she worked physically, so she took her diet or herbs or supplements. We did acupuncture, laser, but we did a lot of conscious work. She had a history of some trauma and she was just amazing at doing her work. The shift she made and big thing was the relationship she took up with her ovaries, kissing her ovaries, imagining having that relationship. And she’s well into her pregnancy now. That’s

Loyd Auerbach 

Great.

Lorne Brown 

And again, it’s an anecdotal case. I’m trying, I want to make more of these cases, but it was just interesting when she came, like the doctor said,

Loyd Auerbach 

It’s really hard. We talk about anecdotal cases and stories. The fact is that bringing somebody into a controlled environment for something like this is not necessarily going to be good for them, and you can’t control all the variables, even though you might try and you may be cutting out one of the variables that’s necessary for the psychological mindset to cause these things to happen.

Lorne Brown 

And if the investigator is biased and doesn’t want it to work, they can impact the results as you are learning. In the research that I know you guys do at the Rhine Institute and the stuff that

Loyd Auerbach 

You’ve, well, it’s been identified, there’s an experimental effect, not necessarily a psychic one, but there is definitely an experimental effect in almost all fields of science.

Lorne Brown 

And to me, it’s not just energetic out there. It’s that idea where you’re holding the pendulum and you think you’re not making it move, but there’s subtle muscles, the experimental bias, although they think they’re being not bias, somehow They’re being bias,

Loyd Auerbach 

Right? Yeah. In the corporate world, we know all about implicit bias now because we’ve all had to go through training.

Lorne Brown 

Yes, any messages or anything you want to share resources for our listeners, we’ll get to how they can connect with you, where they can find you. But just from your book, Mind Over Matter, from your psychic dreaming, if somebody is coming to you, I want to be more involved in my wellbeing. Are there resources or suggestions that you have for our listeners?

Loyd Auerbach 

Well, I mean there are a number of websites, of course, of Parapsychologists who’ve been involved in this work and other researchers who’ve been involved in this work. And I’ll just mention, you said you had Dean Radden on his, he’s got a great resources page in his online library@deanradden.com. Charles Tart has some stuff on altered states of consciousness on his website, and we have a number of folks. So you can go to the website of the Parapsychological Association, which is parapsychic.org, and check out the membership and explore a little bit. You’ll find that there are people who’ve been involved in the healing who might be able to help you, and there’s contacts for a number of them. So that’s one resource here. The Ryan Research Center. As it happens right now, we have a huge media library that’s behind a paywall. Normally it’s hundreds of videos of lectures including people talking about psychic healing and some of these things that we’re talking about tonight. I have a few lectures up there myself. So that’s Rhine, RHINEonline.org. And just go to the media library and you’ll have access. We hope you join. Of course, there are a number of free lectures that are always free, and then we’ll get to how to contact me. But I have a couple of resources I’m very happy to send to people who ask.

Lorne Brown 

Excellent. So for the fertility stuff, I always encourage people to download our fertility diet on the Acubalance website, and you can check what we’re doing with acupuncture, laser, and our conscious work. Loyd, how can people find you, find your books, how can they connect with you?

Loyd Auerbach 

So my books are available on Amazon. The ones that are in print, I think there are still copies of MI matter are still up there at this point. I plan to have it back out by the end of March, if not sooner, back up on Amazon with a new cover, new publisher. And if folks want to contact me, I have something I can send them on a simple PK exercise. They can try that Martin Caden actually put together, and I also have some information that I might be able to send them on healing. I’m happy to send a chapter from the Mind Over Matter book as well about the healing part of things.

Lorne Brown 

We’ll put in our show notes how they can contact you. You’ll send that to me?

Loyd Auerbach 

Yeah, which is my email, which is profparanormal@gmail.com. You have that email, and feel free to put that in the show notes.

Lorne Brown 

Perfect. Loyd, thank you very much. We’ll have to have you on again because I see a Ghostbusters doll back there and a few other things that I’m going to want to ask you about. And so we get that for another conversation. And thank you for taking the time to chat with me today on the Conscious Fertility Podcast.

Loyd Auerbach 

You’re very welcome.